The Interview :: Four

Yes, but I think that Canada is actually more advanced than the United States as far as the New World Order is concerned.

This is, yeah, this is something I want to ask you about. Because in a lot of these, in a lot of your newsletters there's not a whole lot about Canada. Which is understandable -- you're in Texas, you're in the States, that's where your concern lies. But for those of us in Canada, I mean, we're quite, obviously, concerned about where this all might end up for us.

Well, you know, I visited Winnipeg. I guess it's been three years ago. I spoke at a church called Calvary church, a historic church in downtown Winnipeg. And I found it very interesting. They had a radio talk show host there. I think his name was Peter Warren. He was a very popular talk show host there, and Mr. Warren invited me to come on. And people told me that the man hates God, hates Christianity, and is a very vulgar man. Which of course greatly encouraged me to go on his program, you know? Because I don't want to shy away from people that don't like me. I mean, I hope I can win them over to liking me, Hugh, or at least, you know, their audience if not them. So I agree to go with him, though I knew he would attack me severely.

First thing that he did, his first caller -- you know, it was one of these set-up deals. Which I understand, you know. Again, I'm not upset about it, it happens so often to me on liberal or those kind of programs. But Mr. Warren there in Winnipeg -- first caller was a witch. She identified herself as a witch, and a member of a local witches craft group, and she said some very horrible things about me.

Her contention was that I was in violation of Canada's hate crime act. Because I had spoken out about witchcraft and Freemasonry. I had exposed the Masonic Lodge and their evil works and their rituals and so forth, and witches, and said they were of the devil. And she said she had gone down to the Winnipeg police and filed a formal complaint against me. And Peter Warren joined her warmly and said, "Well, congratulations, I agree. This is a horrible man."

And I had a good time, you know, on the program. It was splendid. Now, it was interesting. The very next day, my wife and I were driving around Winnipeg, which is a very pretty city. And you know, I love Canada. That's one of the things. I love greenery. That's why I'm attracted to Canada. Just a beautiful place. And the people there are so friendly. Except maybe the witches, and some of the others [laughter] that hate me. But in any case, there I was. I was going sort of slow, you know, I was just trying

[This is where I had to turn over the tape. You're smart, you'll pick up the thread.]

thought in my mind was, I guess, I'd run afoul of, of Canada's hate crime act. And anyway, the policeman got out and he said, "Sir, I saw you had a rental car from the United States, and it appears you're lost or something. Can I be of assistance?" And he was the nicest guy. I said, "Yes, I can't find my hotel!" I wanted to get to my hotel then, I was lost, just looking around, I figured I'd run into it. He said, "Sure, I'll take you there." And he took me right to my hotel. Very nice man. So that was my police experience, you know, very pleasant.

But the thing is, Hugh, is that, do I hate witches? Uh, yeah, I hate their works. Of course I do, I despise their works. And, and I'll be glad to preach to witches. Now, to hate is to want to destroy someone. The Bible says that Jesus, he -- this is right from the Bible -- Jesus came to destroy the works of the Devil. But the Bible says -- I don't mean to preach to you, please forgive me, you didn't call for that -- but the Bible does say that God wishes that no one perish, okay? See, there's two statements: he came to destroy the works of the Devil, but God wishes no one perish. But he wishes, he wants all men -- and women -- to come to the knowledge of Jesus Christ.

So to me, yes, I hate their evil works, I do. And when a witch renounces that and comes to the truth, it comes to themself, then yes, I rejoice in that, I'm glad for it. And so in that sense, Masons -- even today, I must tell you some of my very best friends are Masons.

Really.

Sure. And I preach to them all the time. And you know, they barely tolerate me. But we have other interests. I try to reach them for Christ.

In any case, but my point is -- goodness, if you hate a person you want to destroy them personally. If you love a person, or at least have respect for a person, then you don't want to see them do harm to themselves and to others. That's the real difference, I think, with Christians and maybe even some of other religions, other religions that have compassionate values as well.

So, in any case, that was my experience there in Winnipeg. The police never bothered me. I spoke three or four times at the conference. It was attended by about a thousand people, probably -- I don't want to over- exaggerate -- maybe it was eight hundred, you know, I don't know, eight hundred to a thousand, each of the sessions. And probably, you know, even on the radio program, Peter Warren asked me if I had any final thoughts.

I said, "Yes! You know, it's been a pleasure being with you, and I want to invite people to come hear me speak, and they can judge for themselves." That's what I always say: people can judge for themselves. I don't cram anything down anybody's throats. So they judge for themselves. And so, in any case, I know Peter Warren, several people have written me since then, he's still mad at me for being on his program. He still mentions me up there sometimes. So that's sort of what has happened to me in that respect.

Now here's the point on this. I believe in the liberty and freedom given to us by our nation's founders. Now I know that y'all have a different experience. But nevertheless, there is the fiction, the myth in Canada of freedom and liberty.

Now there's one group that I think are, they're evil in their works. And that's neo-Nazis. You have a group like that, I think Zundel is in your area. And there are these commission hearings about that. I'm totally opposed to Zundel and this Holocaust revisionism. Now, here comes the problem: does not Zundel have a right -- in fact, let me say this. Did not those witches have a right to call Warren's program? I think so. I don't see any problem with that. And if I can't take the heat as a Christian, then I'll get out of the kitchen, as Harry Truman said. I think that witches have every right in this life under Canada's laws that should be, that should exist, to say their piece. They can get on that radio program and blast me all over the place, call me names, I don't care. Oh, well, I lie. It may hurt my feelings. But you know, that's life. So I'm a big boy.

Now, I think Zundel has every right to do that. And, and I want to add, I think that Jewish organizations and just good Christian folks of all stripes have every right to say, "Zundel, you are a nut." Hitler was a maniac, and I don't care if it was one hundred thousand or six million Jews-- You know, let's face it: there was a holocaust. We can quibble about numbers, but I'm not going to quibble about numbers. If he killed fifty people he was a monster.

The essential facts remain the same.

Yeah, but in Canada -- goodness gracious! I have had books of mine returned from Canada. I have had-- Many publishers in America -- I can name you a number of authors of books -- I'm not talking about neo-Nazi books. I'm talking about books that expose the New World Order and the elite, written by conservatives and liberals that have been rejected by your, even after NAFTA, by your postal authorities, and labelled as hate materials. I find that interesting.

So if I write a book on the Masonic Lodge, right? I don't say, go out and burn Masonic lodges. I think that would be terribly evil. But I say what goes on behind those closed door is Luciferian. Absolutely. Are the Masons themselves Luciferians? No, I think most of them are just ignorant good ol' boys, we call it in Texas. And they don't know. They don't know any better. You know, if they're a Shriner for example, I mean, they bow down before an alter and make a oath, a blood oath to Allah and Mohammed. Then next Sunday they go to church as a Christian. A little weird. They say, "I didn't really mean it, it was just part of an act. It's sort of like a, you know, some kind of a, you know, play game." I wonder what Jesus thinks about that.

In any case, I expose these things. I expose them as they should be, as I have a right to do. Now the Masons can come back and say, "Texe Marrs is a bad boy. He writes these things." And if I write anything that's inaccurate, they should say so. But they won't give specifics, because they claim everything they've got is secret, they don't want to reveal anything. So they just sort of make personal, ad hominem attacks on me. "He's a liar! What he said is untrue!"

But then they won't go into specifics. And the reason they won't is because I always quote Masonic sources. I don't go to Christian sources, because then people would say, "How does that person know?" I, the only Christian sources I go to are Christians who used to be Masons, left the Masonic Lodge, and now they're willing to tell all.

And this still gets you into trouble with the postal authorities?

Oh yeah! Now why is that? Why are the postal authorities protecting Masons, and why do they protect these groups, like the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission? Why do they protect these things? I think that's very interesting. Is that hate crimes to do that? I mean, the Trilateral Commission building -- excuse me, the Council on Foreign Relations building, I have the address, I have a picture of the building itself, I give the address in my book, one of my books. I don't tell people to go down and bomb it. Why? Because those people have every right to go in there.

I even think that the elite have a right, as long as they don't break the law, if they can find some way to get power, control and money without breaking the law, they have every right. But they are breaking the laws. And I have a right to expose them. And I keep my books out.

And listen to me very carefully, and I want you to understand: I'm not advocating Mr. Zundel and his works. I think he has every right to write what he does. I remember a professor there, and I forget his name, wrote some book -- Driscoll, I think his name was. He sent me his book, his books, and I wouldn't promote him because I didn't agree with him, what he said in there. I didn't see them as Christian-oriented. And then I understand later that he was reprimanded, I don't know if he lost his university job or what, but the hate crime squad -- you know, the nanny squad -- got after him.

I think the professor -- I rejected his books. I had a right to. You may have a right to. You have a right in The Loop magazine to say the worst things about Driscoll if they're true, and if it's not libel, right, and defamatory, because that's bad. But you can say, "His book is cockeyed. I don't agree with it. It's nonsense." And you can, say, give specifics. And you can say, "I don't agree with what he's saying, and if you go along with him it can be harmful to society." You can do anything you want. Or I should say, you should be able to.

As it stands now, yes, you can criticize Zundel and Driscoll. But let Driscoll and Zundel say something about somebody, organizations that liberals don't like, and suddenly, or you know, [garbled], suddenly they want to put them in prison, they want to muzzle them. I don't think so.

Here in America we have KKK guys. Every once in a while they will -- You know there's only seven or eight of them, probably -- they will want to go down my city here and demonstrate. I think, give them the old banner and let them go. And I also believe that people should be able to get on the sidewalk and laugh and heckle them. Okay, does that make any sense?

It does, it does.

Yeah, so, a lot of people think I just want to shut folks up. No, I don't want to do that. But I do want the free exercise of religion in our constitution, free speech, I really don't know what Canada's equivalent, but I know Canada has a history of being free. And what we see now is under your hate crime act, one of the things, the way it's described to me, in your provinces, I'm not sure it's national, it states that if you write or say anything that might bring discredit or ridicule or scorn to a specified group, that's a hate crime. [garbled]

Well, let me just tell you right away: I believe that all those people that refuse Jesus Christ, believe in him, will go to Hell. I do. I really do. That includes Buddhist, you know, Hindus, etcetera. I should have the right to say that.

So you feel that perhaps Canada, in some ways, is a testing ground, or is pointing the way, that the elite, this elite clique would like to take things, that we're perhaps--

Absolutely.

Five or ten years ahead--

I think Canada-- It's interesting. You see, Canada, Australia, New Zealand -- you have a different system than us. And one, in one way, you do not really have the protections we have. Because of our constitution, our Bill of Rights, and the court system here, even though they keep packing the courts over and over and over again with judges that will re-interpret the constitution, there is still-- so far, I mean, I'm talking to you, right?

But I must say that I've had visits, or calls by the FBI. Why? Why should the FBI call me? If this is a free country. You see, so even, there's a, let's just call it an intimidation there. Now they didn't say, "We're going to arrest you." They just said, "Tell us about your ministry. What are you doing there? What do you think about the Militias? What about this? What about that?" And I'm thinking, man, there's murders, there's crime, there's drugs, everything going on -- they want to talk to me? You know? [laughter] What for?

Flattering in a weird sort of way.

And I guess there's the whole thing: why waste time on Zundel? In fact, if you didn't give him any publicity, the guy would just vapourize and go away. That's my opinion. Because nobody really believes in that junk, except a few crazies.